Are we as bad as the bad guys now???

**R0cketer** · February 16th, 2006, 01:52 PM

I'm not trying to say that the US is akin to Iraq or any other country thats been bad for violating human rights and such, but I fear that we're heading into dangerous territory.

I mean when you get an article like this (mainstream--yahoo)

U.S. Rejects U.N. Report on Gitmo

GENEVA - The United States should shut down the prison for terror suspects at Guantanamo Bay and either release the detainees or put them on trial, the United Nations said in a report released Thursday. The world body also called on the United States to refrain from practices that "amount to torture." The White House rejected the recommendation to shut the prison. "These are dangerous terrorists that we're talking about that are there," spokesman Scott McClellan said.

My question is are we any better? We complain that these other countries didn't give into the world collective when the UN issues statements against them, no matter their protests, but here we are doing the same thing and it all is ok.

Look I love my country, I love the US but how are we exactly being better than the other countries. We can say we're not doing it to innocents and try to make ourselves feel better, but I'll give you good odds that we are, maybe not the majority but you and I all know that there is some caught in the web who may not be guilty of anything directly.

I'm sorry, our direction is really scareing me.

**Houndman** · February 16th, 2006, 02:13 PM

I don't put much stock in the UN. I not sure we should release them just to protect the "web". If we take the liberal point of view we may not have a country in the future. All major empires of the past have fallen from within and I wonder if we aren't following that route. The terrorists are a type of people who have no regard for life, not even their on. So I say that if some few are caught in web not directly that to hold them does not violate human rights. Again, I have no faith in the UN.

**the_alienist** · February 16th, 2006, 02:30 PM

I don't think that we should just all of a sudded release them back into the world....but I do believe that their trial proceedings should be expediated and that the US should not be the only country involved in the trial.

**R0cketer** · February 16th, 2006, 02:50 PM

I guess my thing is, other countries always reject UN proposals or orders and we suddenly turn into a great champion of the UN, talking about how they make a clear mandate, etc. Now it seems that the roles are reversed, and we are doing almost the same type of thing.

I guess it seems like we're having our cake and eating it too. The UN is great as long as we agree, then they are wrong and we shouldn't listen to them when we don't agree.

**the_alienist** · February 16th, 2006, 02:52 PM

yeah that seems to be the case. I think that the US has gotten to be so power hungry that the intents of our forefathers have now been passed to the back of the room and manifest destiny is now our objective.

**imported_biggamesjames** · February 16th, 2006, 07:16 PM

Well you are not going to agree with anyone all of the time...most of the time the U.S. and U.N. have a pretty decent relationship. Lets face it without the U.S. the U.N. would probably not exist. There are going to be differences on occasion with any two governmental bodies but overrall I think the U.S. is in good standing with the U.N. You have to change a little from the old traditional tactics to a degree when you are dealing with terrorists/militant Islam and I think the U.N. doesn't totally understand that yet. The U.S. is adopting an approach more similar to the hard line Israeli tactics and moving away from the politically correct liberal ideaology of dealing with terrorist criminals. I applaud the direction we are moving in. We can't afford to play kindergarten cop with all these jokers.

**1inStripes** · February 16th, 2006, 07:36 PM

I couldn't disagree a bit.

**lpd05** · February 17th, 2006, 11:29 AM

Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been commited, which district shall have been previously ascertained by the law; and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Conunsel for his defence.

Amendment VII
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

This is should not be a political issue. 95% of those guys held in Cuba are guilty. Put them on trial and sentence them. If the Democrats were denying the accused a speedy trial by jury, then shame on the Democrats. Right now, the Republicans (who control every branch of government at this time) are to blame. I hear something new everday that makes me wonder where we went wrong?

February 17th, 2006, 11:42 AM

They are not standard criminals- Bush declared war on "Terrorism" it gives us freedom to shoot on sight. Untill the "war" is declared over, they don't have rights. This is one of my biggest reasons for wanting better footing before starting a "war". The US should have leveled Iraq, the US public will never stand for that kind of mission, leaving the troops to police a hostile country as best they can. If the terrorists are using the deaths of the Iraqis to drag more of them into the fight then all they have to do is start shooting in a crowd. We will never be able to free a group of people that don't want freedom, sure they want for their own little group, same as Saddam. But then it comes to being a "ruling" party again. If the bunch in Gitmo has offended, keep'em there forever. It isn't any different than the Germans or the Japs. And you will recall the leaders that Bush said were running the war in Iraq were the same that blasted the towers and still make their threats.

**imported_biggamesjames** · February 17th, 2006, 03:27 PM

"This is should not be a political issue. 95% of those guys held in Cuba are guilty. Put them on trial and sentence them. If the Democrats were denying the accused a speedy trial by jury, then shame on the Democrats. Right now, the Republicans (who control every branch of government at this time) are to blame. I hear something new everday that makes me wonder where we went wrong?"

They are enemy combatants...they should not be afforded a trial by jury. They should be sentenced by military tribunal.